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+1 Up down Had an interesting debate this morning regarding school vouchers. A caller stated that public schools suck. He said public schools don't do a good job. He said it's too expensive and blamed teacher un 0.0
Posted by:WOMFING TOM Rating 10 10 `Helper`

Had an interesting debate this morning regarding school vouchers. A caller stated that public schools suck. He said public schools don't do a good job. He said it's too expensive and blamed teacher unions. He said a lot of things that, frankly, I'm tired of hearing . I'm afraid I reacted badly to his arguments.

Oregon public schools do not "suck". Oregon public school teachers are required to hold certification and take great pains to update their skills. Their level of pay is not extraordinary or inappropriate. A significant number of local high school graduates go on to colleges or trade schools and become excellent contributing citizens.

Private schools have their place in the scheme of things and do provide an opportunity for parents who want to see their child in a setting that teaches things public schools do not provide. Like religious dogma.

Private schools do not provide many of the things that make for a well-rounded education in some cases. Athletics have an important place and yet are not always offered in a private school setting. Transportation systems are also lacking for most private schools. Some do not offer lunch programs.

I think it is debatable that students from a private school perform better than students in a public school setting if it were possible to compare the two in a fashion that is fair to both. If we were to set up a system whereby we would cherry pick students for public schools I'm sure the overall results would be better but the fact is we have a responsibility to provide the opportunity for a good education to everyone regardless of personal capability.

If you want to make a valid argument for a private school voucher system you should be able to do it without throwing public education and everyone associated with it under the bus.

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elilou

Not happy with BMS

+1 Up down
Posted by: elilou Rating 14 14 `Helper`

My son goes to Braodway Middle school in Seaside where the motto is Excellence in Equity - I hate this! Nothing in life is equal - you have to work hard to make it in this world and their motto doesn't allow for this. If homework is not turned in on time, there is no punishment, not even a drop in grade. I require my son to go above and beyond whenever possible but he's able to get straight A's by basically just showing up. I fear for his future when he goes off to College and is competing with kids who understand what hard work is. There has to be a better way.

ArtHyland

Public schools, continued

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Posted by: ArtHyland Rating 0 0 `Blogger`

Elilou's experience is so unfortunately common. And it's been this way for a long time. Of course there are good public schools, teachers and administrators here and there, but frankly the good ones have to buck the system, and often have to keep their mouths shut at times for fear of retribution. It's a monopoly that lives up to the problems of one.

It's been 15 years since my son was in grade school (in WA), but I can completely empathize with Elilou above. The philosophy summarized by her middle school is so typical of the tripe that comes from the Public School leadership at the state level, and it doesn't matter which state. Washington is just as clueless. I was under the impression back then that the only realistic information about life my son received at school happened on the basketball court, where there were winners and losers, points were counted, there was a public score kept for all to see, kids were not equal and they all knew it, and the kids all wanted to win, but experienced what it was like to lose, and to figure out how to win the next time. All of these lessons learned in the games were frequently neutered in the classroom, where "all of the children were above average" as Garrison Keiller is fond of saying. The reason his line is funny is because everyone knows it's being practiced! A very old friend of mine (I miss him terribly) who was a retired headmaster of a private school in the East once said the worst thing the school systems could do was taking the right to fail away from the students.

My son did have a few good teachers, and to this day can recall a lot of what he learned in those rare classes. But the public school system of rewarding mediocrity to teachers and students has by and large resulted in a system that just doesn't work like it should. The demands and responsibilities required to produce children who can think, listen, write and analyze are so commonly secondary to the longevity and benefits given to those who work in the school system. They would be worth paying even more than we do, to me, if they produced excellence, and had a system of weeding out the weeds that infect the schools. I recall discussing with a principal an absolutely poor teacher who's classroom was always a mess, the kids were in control--it was obvious to anyone this wasn't working. The principal nodded affirmatively to my wife and I, and said several times, "we're working with her." That's what the public schools do, they "work with them," and push the problem off to the next principal, or the next year, or the next decade.

So I'm sorry Elilou, for your current plight. Your son will probably be just fine but only because of your willingness to make the adjustments at home; and perhaps next year he'll have a teacher or teachers who are going to be among those who buck the system and will challenge him and the rest of the class in the way they all need to be. Art Hyland, Astoria

rockmom

Equity and Excellence

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Posted by: rockmom Rating 0 0 `Blogger`

Is the motto that has been adopted at Broadway Middle School in response to the need to help all students peform at the best of their ability--and not settle for just 'getting by' or choosing to fail-as many school in our society do. If refers to the idea that all students are able to and expected to demonstrate academic success in the classroom. Broadway is in the process of going on a lengthy journey to increase the academic performance of all of its students and to hold students accountable for mastering the content and concepts presented in class. Students are now earning grades based on what skills/content they have mastered--instead of 'just showing up'--with interventions set up for those students who fail to meet the grade-level academic expectations. The teachers at Broadway care deeply about their students and work hard to help students become successful students and future citizens. Elilou, if you have concerns about your son's experience, it might be a good idea to contact and work with his teachers instead of resolving to be disappointed.

elilou

Wrong

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Posted by: elilou Rating 14 14 `Helper`

I've seen first hand that BMS is not in fact not holding kids accountable for mastering content and concepts. Why is it, there is no punishment for not turning an assignment in on time. Why do kids who turn their assignments in a week late, flying in the face of the teacher's instructions, get the same grade as those who turn it in on time? How is this teaching them about life in the real world. BMS is so concerned with making sure everyone is passing that they've dumbed down the curiculum and focuses only on getting those with lesser ability, desire, parental direction up to a passing grade while not caring a bit if those actually doing what is required of them are challenged or not. My son is smart, I'm proud of that, but having homework one time every three weeks is rediculous!!! And YES I HAVE asked the principal for help - he simply passed me to the teachers who all made excuses and hollow promises to help challenge my child through extra expectations, extra credit and more opportunity and of course they never followed through. LIFE IS NOT EQUAL!!!! You have to work hard to get ahead and be successful. We are damaging our youth by being cheerleaders for poor or subpar performance and we are cheating those with greater ability by cutting off their source of education at the public school level. No BMS is not doing right by our kids - they are in fact letting them "just show up" and those not, are helped through the system, probably to just get them out of the way so they're not a problem anymore - well you know what they'll be the tax payers problem tomorrow when they can't get a job.

An_onny

Agree

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Posted by: An_onny Rating 7 7 `Blogger`

I agree with the comments about the sad state of our public schools. Caring teachers or no, the schools just don't seem to have as high academic standards as do private. I went to Catholic school for 12 years. Very demanding academically. I studied for hours and still just averaged a B. I felt very challenged. Discipline was firm, and as a result we had very little disciplinary issues. No, this was not the days of getting beaten by nuns, either. Expectations by parents AND staff were high. When kids would transfer to our school from the public high school they would comment about how they were always at the top of their class in their former school...and now they were pulling Cs. When I graduated I attended a State University. Freshman classes were a joke! They were geared to kids coming in from public schools, I guess. My high school had been way more challenging! And yet, even with it being so easy there were many kids slacking off and not doing their work. THAT is what private school does for our kids and our country. I think more kids should have the opportunity to afford a private education through vouchers. Especially if they are breezing through public school with no challenges! You worry if all the smart kids pulled out and went private, that would leave all the poor students behind. Fine, perhaps they could get more of that individualized attention they need then. Let the smart kids reach their potential!

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